Episode 141 - Divorce Support from Journey Beyond Divorce
Leh
Meriwether: Welcome, everyone.
I'm Leh Meriwether, and with me is Todd Orston. Todd and I are partners at the
law firm of Meriwether & Tharp, and you're listening to The Meriwether
& Tharp Show. Here, you will learn about divorce, family law, tips on how
to save your marriage if it's in the middle of a crisis, and from time to time,
even tips on how to take your marriage to the next level. If you want to read
more about us, you can always check us out online at AtlantaDivorceTeam.com.
Todd?
Todd Orston: Leh?
Leh
Meriwether: You ready?
Todd
Orston: Born ready. Is
that too confident? I don't know. Did I oversell it?
Leh
Meriwether: I think so.
Todd
Orston: All right. All
right. I'm ready.
Leh
Meriwether: Okay. Fantastic.
Todd
Orston: What are we
talking about?
Leh
Meriwether: We are ... Well,
hopefully, we're not going to be doing too much talking today.
Todd
Orston: Well, I always
hope you're not going to do too much talking.
Leh
Meriwether: Well, today we're
going to ... You know, a lot of times we'll dive into the law, we'll use
examples of people's questions to explain the law, family law, especially here
in Georgia but sometimes other states, and then other times, we try to bring
resources to the table to help folks that are struggling through the divorce
process or a similar family law process, and recently, I had an opportunity to
meet a group. The name of the group is Journey ... bil bah bah bah ...
Todd
Orston: Yeah, really?
Leh
Meriwether: Journey ... I need
some [crosstalk 00:01:24].
Todd Orston: They should rethink that
name.
Leh
Meriwether: Journey Beyond
Divorce, and they're actually a divorce coaching group. Not the same type of
divorce coaching that we've talked about, because the divorce coaching we've
talked about is more of a legal divorce coaching. This is something that goes
beyond that. It's a different level, and I'm probably messing it up. So instead
of me talking about, it we're going to have Karen McMahon, I'm sorry, I didn't
have my glasses on. Sorry, Karen. We have Karen McMahon, founder of-
Todd
Orston: Karen, I
apologize on his behalf. My humblest apologies.
Leh
Meriwether: Karen McMahon,
founder of ... We already know I'm terrible when it comes to names. Founder of-
Todd
Orston: He barely knows
my name, Karen, so ...
Leh Meriwether: She is the founder of Journey
Beyond Divorce. She is a relationship and divorce coach, and Karen's passion is
to help men and women navigate the emotional difficulties of relationships,
breakups, and divorce. She works to open up the possibility that one's current
relationship challenges can actually lead to a rewarding voyage of
self-discovery and an immensely more pleasing life experience.
Karen
founded Journey Beyond Divorce in 2010, after discovering that the pain of
dissolving her own marriage had been the very stimulus for her own personal
transformation. During her three-and-a-half-year tumultuous divorce, Karen's
life began to improve exponentially. With much hard work, she embraced her new
life, created healthy friendships, found her true voice, and learned to set
suitable boundaries and let go of what she could not control.
Karen
is the mother of two emerging adults, a graduate of the world's leading
coaching institute, Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching, IPEC,
and a certified member of the International Coaching Federation, ICF. Karen's
other accomplishments include work as a New York lobbyist, health advocate,
community organizer, and chairperson of a New York nonprofit organization.
She's also director of sales and marketing and is a successful business owner.
Karen, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Karen
McMahon: Thanks for having me,
Leh. And Todd.
Todd
Orston: You are very
welcome.
Leh
Meriwether: And sorry for not
having my glasses on earlier. All right, so let's start off with, tell me about
Journey Beyond Divorce and how do you help clients navigating the divorce
process?
Karen
McMahon: Right. So Journey
Beyond Divorce helps people in two different ways. No matter where you are in
your divorce or how you got there, there's an emotional storm that comes along
with it. It's just such a tremendous transition. And so we help people navigate
the emotional storm of divorce, help them see where they're stuck, help them
get clear on what they want and be able to navigate it with more ease. And then
on the other hand, the logistics, we connect them with resources like yourself,
we help them when they need an attorney or a financial planner, we help them
understand what a preliminary conference is. We'll give them basic information
and guide them toward the experts so that they're well-equipped and have a
solid support team for going through the transition.
Leh
Meriwether: Now Karen, I had
actually mentioned to a few people before I came on the show that we were
interviewing you and what the show was about and that I was sharing information
with other folks in our firm, and the first reaction was, "Oh, do they do
therapy?" But I understand what you're doing is different than therapy.
Can you explain how your support is different than like the therapy you might
get in a counseling session?
Karen
McMahon: Absolutely, and it's a
great question. It's one of the biggest questions we get. A lot of our clients,
especially if they are struggling with a past that deals with abuse or if they
have mental health issues with them or their spouse, they're seeing a therapist
and they'll work with us, as well. So a therapist ... We're not mental health
experts. Therapists are mental health experts. They help you to understand
what's going on, how your triggers are developed, they work a lot in healing
and in the past, whereas we really help people get from where they are to where
they want to be. So we're not mental health experts. We are more strategic.
So
someone might come to me and they're super angry and I'm going to help them to
take a look at where their trigger is and how they're responding to that anger
or reacting to that anger and how that might be damaging the very thing that
they want, and then strategically help them to shift the way they engage in
situations like that so that they're more effective. So when clients do hand in
hand therapy and coaching, it's incredibly valuable and then sometimes, you
have clients who they've been through therapy and they kind of know their story
and they're still feeling stuck. They feel like they've healed, but they're
still stuck. In those cases, coaching is really helpful because you're on a
one-hour call, it's very interactive and strategic, and you have an action
plan. So they feel like they're moving forward and no longer staying stuck,
which is a huge benefit of coaching.
Todd
Orston: Karen, what I
love about this is that one of the biggest problems that we always talk about
in these types of cases is the emotion, the anger, the anxiety, the fear. All
of these emotions can actually interfere with our ability to successfully,
right off the bat, successfully jump in and start helping our clients because
unfortunately, they're caught up in the emotion, the other party's caught up in
the emotion.
What I
love about this program is it really sounds like there's a hyper-focus on
relieving that anxiety, calming that fear, calming that anger, helping people
start to really get back to thinking rationally so they can help themselves,
whether that ultimately results in a divorce and separation or not. But it's
really just helping alleviate those strong emotions that could really cause
problems for people.
Karen
McMahon: That's exactly it. Our
goal is that you, as an individual going through divorce, that you go through
it calm, clear, and confident, and that you're an effective partner with your
attorney, because so often, you guys get a bad rap and all of that conflict
energy is thrown at the attorney or fear energy is thrown at the attorney, and
when we work with clients, we help them to see, "Well, wait a second.
That's your trigger," and we'll get into this as we talk, but it's like,
whatever your trigger is ... Imagine you have eyeglasses with a certain
prescription, right? Your lens is altered because of your fear or your
insecurity or your judgment, and so you're not reacting to what's real. You're
reacting to your interpretation of what's happening, and so you're hamstringing
yourself. Our clients learn to have a clear lens of what's real so that they're
actually responding to what's happening, as opposed to their emotional
interpretation of it.
Leh
Meriwether: Now, the nice
thing about being a coach is that you're not limited. Like for us as lawyers,
we're limited to states that we're actually licensed to practice law in, but
you're not. You could help people in all 50 states across the country.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, we actually like
to say that we cover the English-speaking world. We've worked with people
abroad, as well. So there are no limitations, and unlike a therapist who often
wants to be face to face because what they do is they read the body language
and everything else, I have super tuned in hearing. Sometimes we do video chat,
but yeah, we can talk to people all over the country and support people
wherever they're at.
The
other thing is, I can be much more direct with a client than you might be able
to be. I've had attorneys call me and say I'm working with one of their clients
and they're like, "Look, the whole custody thing is going upside down
because they're digging their heels in. Can you talk to them?" And then we
can engage in a conversation about, "Okay, you don't want your spouse to
see your kid at all. Great. Let's look at why that is. Let's look at how
realistic that is. Let's look at how good that is for the kid," and
because we're coming at it from a different angle, we can dislodge them from
... we can help them dislodge themselves is a better way of putting it, from a
stuck position that's not serving them, that might be costing them a lot of
time and money and that they can emerge from one single session more open and
flexible to what's going to be beneficial to the whole family.
Leh
Meriwether: Hey, up next,
Karen, I want you to address to everyone what are the common issues that you
see and help people when they're getting a divorce?
I just
wanted to let you know that if you ever wanted to listen to the show live, you
can listen to it at 1 a.m. on Monday mornings on WSB. So you can always check
us out there, as well.
Todd
Orston: Better than
counting sheep, I guess. Right? It's a-
Leh
Meriwether: That's right.
Todd
Orston: You can turn on
the show and we'll help you fall asleep.
Leh
Meriwether: There you go.
Todd
Orston: I'll talk very
soft.
Leh
Meriwether: Welcome back,
everyone. I'm Leh Meriwether, and with me is Todd Orston. Todd and I are
partners at the law firm of Meriwether & Tharp, and you're listening to and
you're listening to The Meriwether & Tharp Show. If you want to read more
about us, you can always check us out online at AtlantaDivorceTeam.com.
Well
today, thankfully, you're not going to hear too much from Todd, because we have
with us Karen McMahon, founder of Journey Beyond Divorce, and she is a
relationship and divorce coach and she has a group of people that work with her
in this organization to help folks get through a divorce. In the last segment,
we learned how what she does is beyond therapy. It's not ... Therapy is
focusing on the emotional component in the past, and if it's okay, let me know
if I'm phrasing this right, Karen, but you focus really on the present, like
how do you focus on the present and what you're going through, if you're the
one going through the divorce, and how do you get through this so you come out
the other side arguably a better person because you've learned through the
process?
Karen
McMahon: That's very well ...
That's it. That's it in a nutshell.
Leh
Meriwether: Woo, I got it
right.
Todd
Orston: Lucky.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah.
Leh
Meriwether: Well, where we
left off was, the question I threw out there that we didn't have time to answer
in the last segment was, what are the most common issues that you see for folks
from your perspective that are navigating through the divorce process? What are
the most common things that they struggle with? I'm really curious to hear how
you answer that, because we know what we see as lawyers, but you're seeing it
from a different perspective and beyond just the boundaries of the state of
Georgia and Florida, where we practice.
Karen
McMahon: Right. So we sat down,
after a couple of years of doing this and put together a list of what are the
common pitfalls, what are the common emotional struggles that kind of cross the
borders of all of our clients, and we came up with actually 12 and created a
12-step divorce recovery series to support people in these areas. So we can
just talk about a few of them.
The
first one, and the reason that it's the first one, is about conflict. Everyone,
regardless of how high or low conflict your divorce is, they struggle with
getting caught up in the arguments and the anger, and so our first step is
actually called Curb the Conflict. What we talk to our clients about is
starting to notice how they behave, and starting to notice their spouse, but
more how they behave, how quickly they react, how they interpret things, and to
create some space to give a little space between when you're triggered and when
you react.
When
you create that space, you're less likely to emotionally react where what comes
out of your mouth completely bypasses your brain and then you regret it or it
creates more problem, and that space allows you to actually think about, be
more thoughtful about, how you want to respond and in doing so, you begin to
minimize the conflict instead of increase it. So that's the huge one that I
think everyone across the board can benefit from.
Todd
Orston: You know, I
think everyone can benefit from that kind of advice-
Leh
Meriwether: Especially Todd.
Todd
Orston: Especially me.
Definitely sometimes me, too.
Leh
Meriwether: I'm just kidding.
Todd
Orston: No, but jokes
aside, we even tell our attorneys that when they're communicating with, let's
say, a contentious opposing counsel, step away from the communication. Step
away from your keyboard. Don't just react and write and say something that
could create additional problems. So put some distance between yourself and
whatever the issue is so that you can have a clear head and approach the
problem in a calm way that won't create more problems than solve.
Leh
Meriwether: And I just want to
say something about Todd. I was totally kidding earlier, because Todd and I
first met years and years ago, 10-plus years ago, 12?
Todd
Orston: Oh, that's
right. When I really beat up on you in court that time.
Leh Meriwether: We never made it to court because
we settled.
Todd
Orston: Right, if I'm
going to tell a story, I might as well be the winner.
Leh
Meriwether: Well, the divorce
involved a lot of tension. There was a severe ... He was representing someone
that had been severely violent to our client. It was a bad ... I mean, we're
talking about there was visual bruises and cuts, it was ... The case started
off bad. Obviously, our client had a lot of anger, justifiably so, because of
what he had done, and he was just a naturally angry person to begin with. But
Todd and I were able to put aside those emotions and work on a fair settlement
agreement in light of all the circumstances, so-
Todd
Orston: And it's easier
for us. I mean, clients ... To me, the more powerful part of that story is the
fact that you were able to control your client, because we've both seen
situations where someone is coming out of a relationship like that and they are
so caught up in the emotion, they are just finding their power. Right? They were
powerless in a relationship and then they come out and all they want to do is
lash out, because they're like, "I'm free, and I'm not going to let you do
this to me anymore." Controlling the clients who are going through that
situation and dealing with that immense emotional whatever, the emotion, that's
where it's really tricky and it sounds like that's really what you're focused
on, helping people get through and avoid those emotional traps.
Leh
Meriwether: And Karen, I'm
going to ... I know you've this in the material elsewhere and I can't remember
where it is, so if I'm jumping ahead, I apologize, but just right in this
moment, I feel like this is a great time to ask this question or bring this
point up. I noticed in your material, you had something in there where you work
with the client to ask if the attorney, their attorney is being too aggressive,
and-
Todd
Orston: Right.
Leh
Meriwether: ... I don't know
if it was under Curb the Conflict or one of the other 12 steps, but it just
seemed like ... I read that and I was like, "That's great," because
we talk about people wanting the bulldog, which often makes the whole case
worse.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and if I could
speak to that, a lot of times, especially if and more often with women, if
you're in a relationship where you feel your spouse is a big personality that
has overtaken, maybe bullied, you feel like you've been controlled, what you
want to do is you want to go out and hire a bully. The problem with that is
number one, if you hire that kind of an aggressive attorney, he or she is going
to be equally as aggressive toward you as toward your spouse, and it's going to
delay and extend and be a more expensive divorce.
So what
we often talk to our clients about is hiring an attorney is often the very
first relationship that you're engaging in after being married and heading
towards your divorce, and you want to do that very consciously and you want to
make sure that that person hears you, responds to you, explains things to you.
You want to feel ... You want to experience your relationship with that
attorney very different than you experienced your relationship with the spouse
that you're leaving or that you're divorcing.
Todd
Orston: And Karen, you
know the funny thing is, we were planning on doing almost that exact same show
next week, and I think you just made it unnecessary. I think we just, we hit
all the points, so this is like a twofer. We have two shows for the price of
one. No, but seriously, we're doing a show and we're going to be talking about
some of those issues when you're hiring an attorney, working with your
attorney, and we've been saying this for years, and this is not to say Leh is
perfect, by far, or I'm perfect, but jokes aside, you need to focus on goals.
You can't get caught up in the emotion, and the problem is too many people
start the process caught up in the emotional trap and having someone like you
and your program there to help people work through and get through the
emotional landmines where they can start focusing on the issues and their
goals, I've got to tell you, that is immensely powerful
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and what
happens, when you're drowning in emotion, and let's say your emotion is either
going to be fear-based or conflict-based emotion, you're in an emotional fog.
It's like you can't see two feet in front of you. You are not going to make all
of these very important, significant, long-term decisions that you have to make
through the divorce process, you're not going to be able to make them
effectively while in that emotional fog. And so our job, our goal, is to help
people step out of that, rise above that, and in order to do that, they need to
understand where they're triggered, where these emotions are coming from, and
to be able to, like I said, step one, create that space so that they can think
clearly.
Otherwise,
and then they're on the phone with you, right? How many times have you sent out
a bill and the client's so angry because nothing's been done, but it's
thousands of dollars and it's like well, you spent all of this time on the
phone complaining about a situation or your spouse, not well spent, emotionally
triggered, and so clients who work with us, we're like, "Use the attorney
for legal strategy, and otherwise, work with us to kind of calm those emotions
and get clear on what you want so you're moving closer to it, rather than
further away."
Leh
Meriwether: You know, we
actually had a show not too long ago discussing that very thing, about trying
to move past the emotion, use your ... It was all about how to actually use
your lawyer efficiently and cost effectively and focus in on the core things,
come with an agenda, leave out of it "Tear apart my spouse" but focus
on, "How do I get from A to B and be able to move on with my life in a way
that doesn't leave me penniless or with no college education fund for my
children?"
Hey,
and up next, we're going to continue to talk with Karen about her significant
12-step discovery recovery series and all the different things that she does
and her group does to help folks get through the divorce process.
Todd
Orston: Hey everyone,
you're listening to our podcast, but you have alternatives. You have choices.
You can listen to us live also 1 a.m. on Monday morning on WSB.
Leh
Meriwether: If you're enjoying
the show, we would love it if you could go rate us in iTunes or wherever you
may be listening to it. Give us a five-star rating and tell us why you like the
show.
Welcome
back, you're with Leh and Todd on The Meriwether & Tharp Show, and I am
cutting the intro because we are getting to it, there's lots of information to
cover. Today we have with us Karen McMahon. She is the founder of Journey
Beyond Divorce. She's a relationship and divorce coach, and she and her group
have put together this 12-step divorce recovery series. We're not going to get
a chance to get to all of them, but can you list out those 12 steps that we
keep talking about real quick?
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and I just want
to mention that the 12-step series is actually a podcast series and Journey Beyond
Divorce is the name of the podcast. So anyone who is interested can look us up
on any podcast platform, Journey Beyond Divorce, and go into the 12 steps. So
very quickly, step one we mentioned is Curb the Conflict. Step two is Heal the
Hurt, which is a really critical one. Step three is Calming the Chaos, and even
though the chaos seems external, it's actually about the chaos between your
ears and the impact that will have. Step four is called Seek Solutions, because
it's so sticky, the problem and being problem-oriented. It talks about how to
shift to solution-oriented.
Step
five is Growing Through Grief. Step six is Escape the Battle, and the battle,
the foundation of the battle is judgment, so that's a really key one. Step
seven is Rekindle Confidence, and that, again, talks about the stories we
create and how that cuts us off at the knees. Step eight is Practicing
Presence, we're fretting the past and worrying the future, and our power is in
the present, so that's a very empowering one.
Step nine
is Overcoming Pain, which we're going to talk a little bit more about, which is
about acceptance, and then very much like the 12-step programs we know about,
10, 11, and 12 are the steps you live into on a regular basis, Accelerate
Trust, which is about your intuition, Embrace the Unpredictable, which gets you
out of, "I can't believe this is happening," and expecting the
unexpected, and step 12 is Living Purposefully, and it's about setting
intentions and surrendering the outcome and just kind of going for the ride.
Leh
Meriwether: Awesome. So we're
going to, I know there are some that are more ... They're all important, but
there's some that I know that when we were off air, you had mentioned that you
really wanted to get into. But they can find out more by A, listening to your
podcast, Journey Beyond Divorce, and if they wanted to hire you, what's the
best way for them to reach out to you, Karen, and find more about how to hire
you to help them get through the divorce?
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, our website is
JBDdivorcesupport.com, and right on the homepage are a couple of different
buttons that you can click on and you can actually just schedule a call with
us. You can click right at the top of our homepage. So that's J-B-D, as in
Journey Beyond Divorce, JBDdivorcesupport.com.
Leh
Meriwether: Awesome. All
right, well let's go back, because I know we had started off talking about
curbing the conflict of the divorce. But I know one of the important ones to
you is Heal the Hurt of divorce. Can you talk about that?
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and step two is
Heal the Hurt, step five is Grow Through Grief. Those are two programs that
really talk about the emotional pain, and what happens, there is such a high
second and third marriage divorce rate, actually with each marriage, it goes
up. My belief and what I've read is the reason the divorce rate increases is
because so many people who get divorced think that they've left the problem
behind, which is their spouse, but they bring all of that emotional baggage
into the next relationship. You go through the honeymoon stage, you rinse and
repeat, and there you are at whatever year, seven to 10, going through your
second divorce.
Heal
the Hurt is about feeling the pain of divorce and processing it, whether it's
writing or speaking, therapy, coaching, and actually releasing it so that you
can be healthier, and not just in your intimate relationship, but your
relationship with your kids, your coworkers, and both step two and then even
more with the grief, step five, walk you through tips and strategies for how to
do that and do it effectively so that you're going forward with a clean heart.
Leh
Meriwether: All right, so and
then you've got Calm the Chaos.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and Calm the
Chaos is, a lot of what we talk to our clients about. I think the best way that
I could explain this is, when we get hurt, when we're hurt in, let's say in
relationship, if I'm hurt or triggered, it has to be the other person's fault,
and so we look externally and we blame externally and it's like, "Okay,
well maybe I need to get rid of that person. Maybe I need to tell that person
to change," when in fact, the gift is in the trigger.
So Calm
the Chaos has us looking at, "What is my inner critic and how does that
cut me off at the knees? What are the assumptions and interpretations that I
have when people show up in my life that cause me to be reactive, that poke at
my tender underbelly? What are the limiting beliefs that I grew up with that
don't serve me, that actually cause me to be reactive?"
And so
calming the chaos is about calming the chaos, understanding what's happening in
the stories between your ears and when you do that and you calm that, much like
creating that space, you respond differently because you start noticing what
part is yours to work on and heal and refine before you engage with the other
part. Does that make sense?
Todd
Orston: Yeah, it's a
return to rational thought versus emotional thought, right? I mean, being
driven ... I know when I've worked with clients or we've had an opposing party
and you can tell, they are just so caught up in the emotion. I've walked into
mediations and I'm sticking my hand out just to shake a hand and say, "Hi,
my name's Todd," and they won't look at me, they won't shake a hand. They
are starting that process so angry, and as soon as that happens, I know. I know
what we're dealing with and it's going to be much harder to reach an agreement.
Whether it's reasonable or not, meaning the terms, the settlement terms, it's
so much harder, because we have to break through those barriers just to get to
a point where they can stop thinking of things in an emotional kind of way.
Karen
McMahon: Exactly, it's that
emotional fog again, and step three is about not only finding your way back to
your rational thinking, but it really talks to people about what is happening
and when someone understands, "Oh my goodness. I am interpreting it that
way." I had a client who called me and she's like, "I have to fire my
attorney. She is so aggressive and she's going to take me to court," and I
remember saying, "Okay, let's slow this down," and two things. One
is, she was so meek in her marriage that whatever the boilerplate letter that
you guys send out just saying, "Hey, I've been retained," she saw
that as this aggressive affront toward her [inaudible 00:30:30] and then ...
That was an interpretation, and then her other interpretation was, "If I
have to go to court and listen to this," because you could laugh, but it
was so real for her, "they're going to take me away in handcuffs."
She literally, in her mind, connected court with like breaking the law and
getting in trouble, and she was so frightened to go to court for a preliminary
conference.
And so
when we help people understand, "Well, where's that interpretation coming
from? Where's that fear coming from?" and they can see clearly, they can
see more rationally, then they can engage with an attorney or a financial
planner or whomever in a much more effective manner.
Leh
Meriwether: And I know there's
more important ... I mean, not more important, there's more additional
important things we're going to go through, but I want to stop here just
because we've seen cases where the client is not getting a good deal, and we're
trying to say, "Look, we're not trying to drive things up, but in three,
four years, you're not going to be in a good place, because you're not getting
what you need and I mean, I hate to say what you deserve, but in some respects,
what you deserve for raising five kids in a 25-year marriage, and you're
walking away from these things and you don't ..." and like you said, they
were meek during their marriage and now they are just terrified of going to
court and a lot of times, the other side will back down if you actually stand
up to them.
So if
you're listening right now and you are struggling with that like, "Oh, I
don't know. I just want this over with," call Karen, because you could be
doing yourself a huge disservice, especially if you've given up a career to
raise a family and then your husband has, or it could be wife, but the other
spouse has put themselves in a very good position in their career and their
likelihood of success beyond this marriage, at least from a financial position,
is very good, well, don't ...
Todd
Orston: You don't want
to ... Well, it goes both ways. You don't want to shortchange yourself, but you
also don't want to take unreasonable, harsh positions. So no matter what, you
don't want to be driven by emotion, and if Karen can help you, please, make
that phone call. As an attorney, we want you to enter into this process calm,
collected, and ready to apply rational thought.
Leh
Meriwether: Hey Karen, when we
come back, I want us to talk about step four and a couple other steps, but step
four, where it's all about seeing solutions. I love that, because we're very
resolution-focused at Meriwether & Tharp, and I want us to dive into that
in the next segment. We'll be right back.
I just
wanted to let you know that if you ever wanted to listen to the show live, you
can listen to it at 1 a.m. on Monday mornings on WSB. So you can always check
us out there, as well.
Todd
Orston: Better than
counting sheep, I guess. Right? It's a-
Leh
Meriwether: That's right.
Todd
Orston: You can turn on
the show and we'll help you fall asleep.
Leh
Meriwether: There you go.
Todd
Orston: I'll talk very
soft.
Leh
Meriwether: Welcome back,
everyone. I'm Leh Meriwether, and with me is Todd Orston. Todd and I are
partners at the law firm of Meriwether & Tharp, and you're listening to and
you're listening to The Meriwether & Tharp Show. If you want to read more
about us, you can always check us out online at AtlantaDivorceTeam.com.
But
today, I don't want you to necessarily listen to us or read about us, I want
you to know more about Karen McMahon. She is the founder of Journey Beyond
Divorce, and she has come on to talk about how she and her organization are
helping folks get through the divorce process, working with lawyers, they're
relationship and divorce coaches and they're there to help you focus on the
present, so you don't get caught up in the emotion of what's going on and work
towards a good outcome in your divorce and perhaps put you in a place where
you're actually a better person after the divorce, as crazy as that might
sound. Well Karen, thanks so much for not running away after that last segment.
Karen
McMahon: Thank you.
Leh
Meriwether: Well, we left off
with seeking solutions during a divorce. We didn't get to it, but this is
something that is near and dear to us at Meriwether & Tharp. We are very
resolution-focused, we try to ... not that we're afraid of the courtroom at
all, but we would rather look towards solving ... sometimes we look at divorces
as a puzzle to solve. I mean, they're people, I'm not saying that people are puzzles,
but what's going on in their future, we try to focus on solutions, and so when
I read this as part of your 12-step process, I loved seeing that.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah, and the thing
is, the problems that we facing going through divorce, and I had a three-and-a-half-year,
really difficult divorce, my kids were barely in grade school, and so the
problems are so noisy and sticky and we're so emotionally triggered and
reactive, that our clients tend to focus on the problem. Even as I'm coaching
someone, it's like, "Okay, we're clear on the problem. Let's get to the
solution." Two seconds later, they're back to the problem. And so going
through the divorce process, as you guys know, there's so much that's not in a
client's control: the courts, the schedule, the spouse's reaction.
But the
one thing that is in our control as a client is what we choose to focus on, and
so step four is about don't be problem-oriented. Be clear on whatever the
problem is, whether it's an immediate thing or a legal part that you're working
on, and then totally put your energy and your focus in the solution. What are
my options? How do I figure out which is the best option? What information do I
need from my attorney? What am I triggered by that I need to work through?
Whatever it is, and when you can continually bring your attention to the
solution, be solution-oriented, you will feel more empowered, you will be more
effective, and you will be a much more cooperative partner with your attorney.
Todd
Orston: You know, the
reason that's powerful and is resonating with me is that when I see a client
who is so caught up in the emotion, the way you're putting it there, you're
100% right. I think what the problem really is, they're not truly seeking a
solution.
Leh
Meriwether: Oh, yeah.
Todd
Orston: I mean, when
I've seen the problems come up, it's usually because there's an emotional
blockage, which means they have lost focus on what their goal should be in that
settlement conversation, and that is, "What is the solution here? What is
my goal? What am I trying to accomplish?" They're just caught up in the
fight.
Karen
McMahon: And one of the things
that me and my team often will ask our client when they're caught up in the
fight is, "Okay, is what you're doing right now or how you're thinking
right now, is it moving you closer to what you want or further away?"
Leh
Meriwether: Right. That's
right.
Karen
McMahon: And it's pretty quick
for them to go, "Wow. Yeah, no, I'm pouring fuel on the fire. I guess it's
not bringing me closer." And so, so often, again, when there's that
emotional fog, our job is to help our clients raise their level of
consciousness. When you're conscious about what you're doing and why you're
doing it and if it's serving you, that's the moment that you're in a place to
change. When you're just emotionally reactive, you're not conscious, you're
just reacting. That's why they call it blind anger, blind rage. And so our job
is bring you, help you to get to that place of clarity and consciousness. Then
you can focus on the solution.
Leh
Meriwether: Yeah, and one of
your focuses, and we're not going to talk about that, I just want to hit it
real quick, is escaping the battle, because we do see clients will cycle on
things and so they get caught where they are, going over and over and over
again with a, I wouldn't say a problem, but with their emotion, instead of
focusing on those solutions that allow them to move forward.
All
right, so let's, before we run out of time, let's talk about number nine,
overcoming pain.
Karen
McMahon: Yeah. This is one of
my favorites, and one of the reasons it's further on in the program, it's
actually, we talk to people about the difference between resistance and
acceptance. A perfect example is, I'll have a client say to me, "I can't
believe she showed up late to pick up the kids again," and I'll be like,
"Okay. Has she ever shown up late before?" "Yeah, for the last
20 years!" And you can't believe it why? And it's a perfect example of
resistance. Or "I can't believe he spent so much money," or whatever,
and they immediately know, it's like, "No, my spouse has been that way for
as long as I've known him or her." Okay, so I want you to notice that
you're in resistance of how that individual behaves, and step six, which we're not
going to talk about, is, you're also in a lot of judgment around it, and those
two things aren't going to serve you.
Step
nine is inviting people into acceptance. Now, I'm not saying to accept
unacceptable behavior. If you've been in an abusive relationship, you want to
accept that you've been in an abusive relationship. You don't want to explain
it away, you don't want to be like, "I just did something wrong," or
"He just or she just had a bad day." You want to accept that it is
what it is. Once you accept what is, "I'm going through a difficult
divorce. I've got teenagers who are upset, and I have to handle that,"
whatever it is, then you will see more options and choices to address what is.
When
we're in resistance, it's like we've got our foot on the gas pedal and the
brake at the same time and we're just spinning and going nowhere, and how do
you feel? You feel powerless. Again, you're once more frustrated that things
are out of your control. Throughout the 12 steps, one of the key things we talk
about is, you are powerful if you focus on yourself. There's so much power that
you have through this process. However, if you're going to be in resistance and
focus on the other person, you will feel powerless, and that's not going to
serve you.
Leh
Meriwether: I love that
analogy of putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake, partly
because I use that analogy all the time, and the point that I try to make to
clients is, sometimes they just want to force things. They want to force things
to move faster or do more things and it's coming out of that cycle of hurt and
not overcoming their pain, and so but the divorce process moves at its own
rate, and so I'm like, "Okay, I can do that, but it's like having your
left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas, and all you're going to do is
spend a lot of money and not go anywhere."
Todd
Orston: I can tell you
the last time I drove with my son, who's just learning, he did that. I can
vouch, it does not work.
Karen
McMahon: And resistance, that
resistance part creates so much friction internally and with your soon-to-be
ex, and often, between you and your attorney, and it's like, all of that
resistance gets you noplace. And so really, step nine is such a gateway into
having choices, feeling empowered, and beginning to take control of what you
can control. So it's very, very powerful.
Leh
Meriwether: I'm glad you said
that it can create conflict with your own lawyer, because most good family law
lawyers, beyond just our firm, but most good family law lawyers, they're looking
for solutions, and sometimes they're pushing against the client going,
"No, no. We need to move beyond that," and then they get upset with
them because they're not in that same pain that they are, and they're actually
trying to pull them out of the pain but sometimes, like Todd said, they don't
want to be out of the pain. They want to be stuck there.
But
hey, we're almost out of time. We have about a minute 40 seconds left, and I
didn't want you to leave without telling everyone how they can reach out to you
one more time.
Karen
McMahon: Okay, great. So
there's a couple of different things. A new offer we have is a completely free
coaching call. If you're listening and this is resonating with you and you feel
like you need some support, go to book.rapidreliefcall.com, and you'll just get
my schedule and you can just book in a call with me and you get a full coaching
call on the house.
If you
want to see more about our offerings, you can go to JBDdivorcesupport.com and
find out some of the other resources and a huge library of articles that we
have. And if you're a podcaster, please find us at Journey Beyond Divorce
podcast. We're on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn radio, iHeart, the whole
realm of them. So tune in and listen to the 12 steps. You'll find it'll make a
big difference.
Leh
Meriwether: And let me just
follow up with what you just said. Wherever you are, wherever you're listening
to this, whatever state you're in, if you're struggling, you're having trouble
with your lawyer, try this: book.rapidreliefcall.com. You'll get a free call, a
free coaching session, and who knows? It may help you move beyond your divorce
and move into a better place in life, as strange as that may sound where you
are right now. And thanks, Karen, for coming on the show. We really appreciate
you being here.
Karen
McMahon: Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
Leh
Meriwether: Thanks so much for
listening. Tune in next week. We're going to talk about the six signs that you
should be looking for when it's time to get a different lawyer.