Divorce and Mortgage Refinancing with Expert Ryan Jacobs

Listen to Divorce Team Radio as Todd Orston, Partner at the Divorce and Family law firm of Meriwether &Tharp, LLC, explores divorce and mortgage refinancing with Atlanta mortgage expert Ryan Jacobs of Homespire Mortgage. Ryan and Todd discuss mortgages, refinancing, and the 6 Tips you MUST know if mortgage refinancing is a requirement in your divorce!

Todd Orston:

Welcome everyone to Divorce Team Radio, I'm your host Todd Orston, partner at the divorce and family law firm of Meriwether & Tharp. Here, you're going to learn about divorce, family law, and, from time to time, even tips on how to save your marriage if it's in the middle of a crisis. If you want to read more about us, you can always check us out online at atlantadivorceteam.com. All right, let's get started. So in the show, we regularly talk about what we call the four core areas. And you deal with custody issues, child support issues, alimony, and then of course, division of property and debt. Well, we're going to talk today about one component of the fourth core area, division of property. And what we're talking about today is the home. All right. When you go forward with a divorce, you have to deal with all the property, including real estate.

Well, there's a lot more that goes into the thought process. Meaning, do you want the home? Can you handle taking the home? If you get the home, what does the other side get? And more importantly, what steps need to be taken to effectuate that transfer? If the mortgage, and I stress that word, that's what we're talking about today, but if the mortgage is in the other party's name, well, guess what? I am confident they're not going to be comfortable with that indebtedness remaining on their credit long after the divorce is granted. So you're going to have to refinance. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. But here's the good news, that is not my specialty. And as we always do, we like to bring people on the show who actually know what they're talking about. And that's what we're doing today.

So today, I'm excited, very excited, because I've known this person for years. And he absolutely knows what he's talking about when it comes to mortgages and refinancing and all of these things. And today's show's going to be six primary tips, fantastic tips, you should be thinking about if you have to go forward with a refinance. And so today, I am excited to say that we have with us Ryan Jacobs, with Homespire Mortgage. He's been serving clients for over 28 years. Ryan, I can't believe that. But he started his career in the mortgage business, right out of college in Washington, DC metro area. He moved to Atlanta in '97, continues his mortgage career and he's never looked back. What excites him is to get up every day and serve, and help his clients as if they were family members. Helping someone purchase their dream home or refinancing their current home, to pull cash out and/or reduce the term of their mortgage to align with their retirement goals, sparks a fire in him. And so Ryan lives here in Atlanta with his wife and two kids. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Ryan Jacobs:

Thanks for having me, Todd. Very excited to be here.

Todd Orston:

Absolutely, absolutely. So 28 years. I mean, I'll be honest with you, I have known you for a long time, not 28 years, but that's amazing.

Ryan Jacobs:

Time does fly by and it's incredible how you think about how you got to where you are. I was a senior in college and didn't know what I was going to do, and met a guy in the weight room who graduated a year before me. And he asked, and I said, "What are you doing?" And he goes, "I'm in the mortgage business. It's fantastic, it's a great way to make a living, I'm helping people." Sad to say I was a senior in college, and I was like, "Well, what's a mortgage? What's that all about?" So it was an interesting way to fall into the profession, but it's been great to me ever since. And I've learned a lot and made a lot of good friendships and relationships along the way.

Todd Orston:

That's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I think back to college and I don't know if I could spell mortgage, let alone answer any questions about refinancing, or the method and process behind financing and refinancing. But look, in your practice ,in the 28 years you've been doing this, obviously you get people in all walks of life, different ages, different stages of life, and I have to assume, people who are going through or have just gone through some life event like a divorce.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah. So we see all kinds of different situations in the mortgage world. We see clients who are purchasing homes for the very first time, with that great excitement. We see clients who want to refinance to a lower interest rate, maybe lower their payment. Now, with equity in homes is at an all time high, so we have a lot of clients now who are pulling cash out on refinances. But we do see sometimes the sad side, or the happy side, depending on where you are when it comes to divorce. So we work very hard to be sensitive and compassionate for everyone's situation. And we know, when there's a possible separation of relationship and/or the marital home, we of course cater our tone and how we speak with clients to make sure, because we know it's sensitive, we know it's a really tough time.

And we have a couple of active clients now in that same situation, and we really try to be their cheerleader and let them know we're on their team to cross the finish line because, Todd, you know as well as I do it can get emotional and really have people in a different spot than there used to being in.

Todd Orston:

Yeah, well put. And I agree with you 150%. And the problem that we see is that sometimes people will make a decision relating to real estate in the divorce based on emotion. "It's my home, I want it." But sometimes that's not the smartest thing to do. Sometimes we'll talk to them, and we'll say, "Okay, I understand. You have poured time, forget about the money, but you have poured your heart into this property. And you're saying you want it, but there are more practical considerations that you can't ignore." And I'm hoping we're going to go into some of those things today.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. There are many, many components and different things to look at that we'll go through today on all of our magical points. But yeah, it's a big decision and it's always good to align yourself with professionals, like yourself and myself, and to make sure you're making the best decision that's in your interest and for the future.

Todd Orston:

So we're going to go into six primary points, and I'm sure it's going to blossom into some other points that people should take into account and think about when they're going through this process, or thinking about refinancing. But before we get into the six primary points, tell me a little bit more about you, meaning about the company that you're with. That basically, if someone were to call you what's their experience going to look like?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, absolutely. So our firm is Homespire Mortgage, we are a national mortgage banker, we're licensed in over 40 states, and our goal is to be a client-centric firm. That's what we've done. So we have built a process and a system that caters to clients because we know when you're dealing with the largest asset of your life, or for most people it is, you want to be in the know. So we leverage technology, we make the process really simple for our clients. It's very mobile-friendly. We have our own app, in which you can apply for a mortgage, you can sign all of those super exciting disclosures that you receive when you first apply for a loan. You'll also receive live status updates on the app. So we have an app for both, of course, Android and Apple. So we've really leveraged a lot of technology, but we also don't remove the human side of it because we know, especially going through some sort of a marital crisis of sorts, the human touch is huge.

So we begin all of our relationships with phone calls, and to better understand. And then we start leveraging technology because we want to make it easy for our clients. So then we'll have them apply online, whether it be on their desktop or on their mobile phone, you can also upload all the documents necessary to start the transaction from your computer or from the app into our secure portal. Because we take our clients confidential information very seriously, so we have a dedicated portal for those documents. And then we're always emailing updates along the way. And one thing I always let my clients know is, I'm available 24/7, whether it's for a refinance or for a home purchase because we understand real estate is not 9 to 5. So in my whole career, I think that's what makes me a little bit different, is that I am very accessible. And if I'm not, I'm always getting back to our clients very quickly.

Todd Orston:

Yeah. I like to say the same thing to people, 24/7, but I do like to get a little bit of sleep. So maybe not between the hours of, I don't know, 4:00 AM and 5:30 AM in the morning. A little bit of shuteye will help me help you so...

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely, absolutely. [inaudible 00:10:14].

Todd Orston:

Yeah.

Ryan Jacobs:

Text might be preferred after certain hours, but yeah. I am actually one of those people that I do actually shut my phone off at night. I don't keep it on.

Todd Orston:

Smart. That is smart. And you know what, I will say, I've found most people are respectful. And some people are going through, especially in the divorce world, people are going through bad times and sometimes they need help, and that help maybe is necessary in the middle of the night, but most people respect it. But listen, we're going to go to a break. When we get back, we're going to keep talking about the mortgage process, and we're going to start diving into those six tips that you need to think about if you find yourself in this situation, and refinancing is something you have to take care of. We'll be right back.

Welcome back everyone to Divorce Team Radio, a show sponsored by the divorce and family law firm of Meriwether & Tharp. If you want to read more about us, you can always check us out online at atlantadivorceteam.com. And if you want to read a transcript of this show or other shows, or go back and listen to this or other shows again, you can find it at divorceteamradio.com. Well, today, I've got Ryan Jacobs on the phone with us, talking about refinancing, something, an issue that comes up again and again and again, because of course, in the context of a divorce, when we're dealing with division of property, oftentimes there's a home, and we have to deal with who's getting the home. And if somebody does take the home rather than it be sold, then we have to deal with refinancing. So Ryan, welcome back.

Ryan Jacobs:

Thank you very much, Todd. Good to be back, absolutely.

Todd Orston:

All right. So let's start diving into those six tips, that basically we teased in that first segment because there's a lot more to it. I mean it's not just, "Oh, there's a house I'm keeping it and refinancing." A lot more thought at least should be going into the house and how it's going to be dealt with. So let's start with that first tip. What's tip number one?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah. So I mean the biggest, first question you have to ask is, should we keep the house or not? Or how does the house become a component into the separation of the two spouses that are involved? So there's a tremendous amount to think about. So if we kind of undo this, let's think about, first of all, do one of the parties want to stay in the house? I mean, does somebody have an attraction to the house? It could be the kids are in a great public school system, and one of the spouses wants to keep it for that. It could be that perhaps, maybe, there are other family members or grandparents that are close by to help assist with younger children, and they want to keep the house, or because they just love the house. It's one of those things you just get emotionally attached to.

So that's a big question within itself. And so whenever you're in the heat of the moment and you want to part ways, and we want to try to coach each other to be as level-headed as possible because you're dealing with, most likely, the largest asset that you own. So once you've figured out that one of the spouses might want to keep the property, the next question is, really, can that person afford it? So there's a lot to go into that in terms of affordability of the house, what does the current income of that spouse look like? And can they support the house? So those are a few things to get your hands around out of the gates, to see if that's even a feasible option.

Todd Orston:

Yeah. And that's a great point because I'll be honest with you, we deal with that all the time. Because as you can probably imagine, a divorce, just by itself, is an emotional event. And then you're talking about my home, and I don't mean my in a true possessory or basically, legal sense. I'm talking this is my home emotionally speaking, and therefore, we've seen people where they want to fight for it. And we have to look and say, "Hey, let's think about your budget. Let's think about what it's going to cost you to actually keep it." And once we have that conversation, sometimes it makes sense. But sometimes it becomes very clear very quickly that it's not, or rather, it doesn't make sense because the person in question is going to be house poor. Even if they are getting alimony, even if they are getting child support. And so when someone comes to you and says, "Hey, here's my situation," are you going to help them wrap their head around these types of considerations, in terms of, does it make sense?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, absolutely. As you mentioned, there's that emotional connection to the house and then there's the practicality of it. Does it make sense? Can I afford it? So what we do when our clients complete the loan application, we go through it, line by line, and we extract the data that we need to see if they qualify. We have some clients that are so emotionally attached, "Whatever it takes, I want to keep this house for myself." Or if there are kids involved, for the kids, "I want to keep this house." Even if they're in a position where maybe they don't earn enough money to actually support the payment, then we start some out-of-the-box thinking of how we can make that happen. So yeah, we go through all these things and we go over, "Okay. So when we refinance you into your name, this would be your proposed new payment. Are you comfortable with that? Is that in your budget?" If it's not, then we need to start thinking about some alternative ways because there are some other things that we can look at doing in terms of making it more affordable.

To give you a couple examples, if there is a settlement involved, perhaps pay down some of the principal balance on that mortgage to make it more affordable. Another option, if you want to keep the house, and your current income levels don't support it, is you can add what we call a non-occupant co-borrower. So this is typically a family member that can go on the loan with you. They don't have to live in the house, but we can use their collective income to help support you, and again, cross that finish line. So there's a couple of creative things that we can suggest that we've done in the past, to try to hit the goals of the spouse. Todd, did I lose you? Got to love technology. Well, Todd, if you can hear me, I cannot hear you, but that's okay. Hopefully, we'll have you jumping on.

Todd Orston:

You there?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, uh-oh.

Todd Orston:

Yeah.

Ryan Jacobs:

I had no idea when it turned me off.

Todd Orston:

Welcome back everyone to Divorce Team Radio. I'm Todd Orston, your host and partner at the divorce and family law firm of Meriwether & Tharp. If you want to read more about us, you can check us out online at atlantadivorceteam.com. And if you want to read a transcript of this show or others, you can go back and listen to it again and find it at divorceteamradio.com. Also, if you want to listen to the show live, you can listen at 1:00 AM on Monday mornings on WSB. All right. Today, I'm with Ryan Jacobs. He is an expert in terms of mortgages and financing, refinancing. And we are talking about six incredibly important tips you need to be thinking about. When we went to break, Ryan, you did pose a question about how we can basically word an agreement, whether or not the agreement date or a final order date could be used.

And while we were offline, I think we came up with some good answers. So Ryan, I will say it this way. Just because you reach an agreement, in my mind, I was like, "Well, you need to wait for that final order." But what you are saying, and I think this is really important to flesh out, that even if you have an agreement on day one, but the court doesn't issue a final order that incorporates that agreement into it and makes it a part of the order, you're saying that the banks will look at the terms of the agreement. And so the six-month requirement, if some of the payments had started six months earlier, then that might satisfy the bank's requirement.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, absolutely. And the nice thing about it is we would have history. So if you come into an agreement, and it doesn't become final for six, seven months later, then yes, as long as we have that six-month history, and being able to document that the child support and/or alimony as being deposited into our borrower's account, then that is acceptable, again, because the history is really what tells us what's going on in terms of making sure that that's happening. And one thing, on a side note with those payments, I have encountered some situations where ex-spouses have paid spouses alimony or child support, $200 here in cash, then $150 in a check, and then it's wire.

So what I would recommend for everybody who enters into an agreement like this is make it an auto-pay from your bank to their bank, make it an easy, identifiable electronic transfer, because when we start having to piece, "Oh, well he paid for the Little League soccer for 100 hours." So therefore alimony or child support's reduced by $100, you want to try to avoid that because the more discrepancies in those payments over those six months, the less credibility our underwriters are going to give it in terms of sustainability, and what's really going on here.

Todd Orston:

Yeah. I mean, let's boil it down a little bit more. Just because you can show money, transferred hands doesn't mean that it's pursuant to whatever alimony, child support, whatever, support requirement. So $150 here, $200 there, yeah, it's easy for you to sit there and do basic math, and say, "Oh yeah, see that all amounts to the requirement," it equals that monthly requirement. But a bank's going to look at that and go, "Yeah, but maybe not."

Ryan Jacobs:

Right.

Todd Orston:

I mean maybe it was for other things. So basically, evidence-wise, what you're saying is, we're dealing with banks, and if you're going to do it, make it clean. If it's $1,000, then make sure that it's a $1,000 payment coming, hopefully, same time every month so that you can point to that and say, "See, that 100% complies with the terms of the agreement, that is evidence that those support payments are being made."

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely. That's really boiling it down. Just keep it simple and be consistent. And then you'll fly right through underwriting.

Todd Orston:

All right. So The Clash, should I stay or should I go now? Let's put it this way. We've been talking about this analysis, does it make sense and all of that. But I will say that the analysis shouldn't end, even if you're in an agreement in the divorce world, where you're going to keep an asset, that doesn't mean you should stop thinking about whether or not it makes sense. So should I stay or should I go? Whether to refinance or to sell, once they get from us to you, I have to assume that conversation is still going.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah. I mean, it still keeps going. So we first unravel whether the client or the borrower can qualify, and then they have to let that stew a little bit. Is that payment a welcome? Are they okay with that? Is that something that they have no problem making? Again, whether we have to bring in a co-signer or a guarantor to assist. So that's one of the many, many pieces. And also, we also need to examine who is on the deed to the property. Is it one or both, both parties? Who is on the mortgage? So there's also some strategies there because each spouse is eventually going to want to be able to do their own thing. And there are some certain steps that have to take place in order to get to that end result. And I'm happy to give you an example.

If you have a home that's owned jointly by two partners, and this partner who wants to vacate the property, we have one partner who wants to stay in the house, one partner that wants to depart the house, well, the departing spouse is going to want to get that mortgage off of their credit report because it will hinder them from qualifying for the next house, or the next apartment, or whatever their next home looks like. So there are some mechanics to that and some timing, which kind of goes back to the alimony or child support, if it's needed, to make sure that is timed. So many times we will talk to clients and spouses, and we might have to wait till things come into focus, and wait for that six months to pass, in order to really accomplish our goals. So we always work closely with our divorce family law attorney partners closely, so they can time those deadlines that make sense for both sides financially.

Todd Orston:

Yeah. That's a great example and a great explanation. All right, let's go on to the next tip. What's in it for me?

Ryan Jacobs:

Sure.

Todd Orston:

And as you put it, basically, when you're looking at this and dealing with this situation, equity, how much equity is in the home, that obviously is going to relate directly, or it's going to influence decisions relating to refinancing. And so what is the amount of equity in the home that's available for division, and how is it going to be handled? How does that topic or that issue come up in your conversations with your clients?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, that comes up a lot, especially if the marital home was purchased together or if it was purchased prior to the marriage, it's kind of like a flow chart. If this, then this. So for an example, if you have two spouses that bought the home together, they're probably each going to want to split the remaining equity in the house. So to keep it simple, if the property is worth $400,000 and there's a mortgage on it for $300,000, there's a $100,000 gap of equity. Presumably, that could be used for negotiations or to be split. Those personal details, Todd, I will leave to you and your team.

Todd Orston:

Right.

Ryan Jacobs:

But that $100,000 is critical because it assists with, whether it's purchasing the next home or, "I paid for all the furniture, so I should get it all," or, "When we bought the house, I'm the one that put all the down payment in, so you should get zero, or you should get most of it." So yeah, it's a real important piece of the conversation. And the next question is, well, how do you determine the value of the house so you can get to that number? Well, we typically get appraisals on every transaction that we do, but I have seen, in many cases, where each side will get their own independent appraisal, and you'll average the two, or if it's a pretty amicable separation, one may say, "Hey, whatever your mortgage person." Because like I said, we don't impact or influence anything on appraised value, appraisers work independently on their own. So there's no influence there at all. But that's typically how we get to that number, and it is important how it gets divided.

Todd Orston:

And before we go into the next break, I just want to be clear, the appraisals that you're talking about, for determining the equity in a home for purposes of a divorce, the bank's not going to accept, for purposes of refinancing, the appraisals that we privately got for our clients to deal with our issues, right? I mean, the bank's still going to want to do its own appraisal?

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely, yes.

Todd Orston:

Right.

Ryan Jacobs:

There's some really strict appraisal laws in the mortgage-lending world. So yes, you're correct.

Todd Orston:

Oh, okay. So yeah, look, there's so much to think about. I wish we actually had two or three hours to talk about all this, but we don't. So when we come back, let's go into tips four, five, and six. Starting with what's the financial impact to keeping the home, how do you address paying off the other spouse, and things of that nature. We'll be right back. Welcome back everyone to Divorce Team Radio, a show sponsored by the divorce and family law firm of Meriwether & Tharp. If you want to read more about us, check us out online at atlantadivorceteam.com. And if you want to read a transcript of the show, or go back and listen to it again, you can find it at divorceteamradio.com. Today, we're talking about mortgages, we're talking about financing, refinancing. And on with us today, thankfully, because anyway, thankfully, we have Ryan Jacobs of Homespire Mortgage. He is a 28-year veteran who has dedicated his work, his work life, to helping people, helping people to finance homes and refinance. And he has experience with all walks of life.

And he has also dealt with the situations that, on my end, we have to deal with. People who are going through or have gone through a divorce and they're going to keep a home and it needs to be refinanced. So Ryan, let's keep going, okay? Let's talk about the fourth important tip. And really, what you had brought up was the financial impact of keeping the home, and how to address paying off the spouse for the remaining equity. We have touched on it, but let's make sure we really address this, and then we'll hit tips four and five as well.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, absolutely.

Todd Orston:

Or five and six rather, yeah.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, as we mentioned in the previous segment a few minutes, that remaining equity piece, in terms of what to do with it and how to get it out, is always a huge discussion. For an example, to cash out on a refinance, there's only a certain maximum amount of equity that you can pull out of the home. So typically, it's 80% of the appraised value that you can pull out, on a first mortgage. So that's important because many times, for an example, if you have a $400,000 home and you want to pull cash out to pay off the other spouse, you can only go up to 80%, which, of course, on a good day, if my math is right, that's $320,000. So if you owe, for an example, $350,000, because you had just purchased the house, maybe you only put 5% down, there's no equity there to pull out to pay off the spouse the difference.

So those are some things that we have to think about upfront because they have to be addressed in the agreement. So again, the more equity there is in the house, meaning the difference between your current mortgage balance minus the current market value, has a big impact on what you can do, if there is, to pull that money out, and can be really, really important, especially if you're separating or splitting up any retirement accounts from both sides. So it can be a bit complex, but we do tailor the conversations for each client. So we water it down, make it really, really simple. So, "Hey, this is where you have available, this is what is left, and this is what we can do." So myself and the client and their family law professionals can all make a good decision on the best interest of the outcome for the client.

Todd Orston:

Yeah, that's a great tip. We have to have those conversations with people all the time. All right, let's go to tip number five, tax implications relating to the transfer and sale of a home.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah. So I'm going to put a big asterisk before I comment on this, consult your tax professional.

Todd Orston:

There you go.

Ryan Jacobs:

I'm just the mortgage expert. Because the IRS taxation laws are changing all the time, but this becomes important if you've owned the home under two years. Typically, again, consult your tax professional, but if you're dividing the home under two years, there could be some tax implications, in terms of paying capital gains on the gain itself, for the departing spouse. So those are some things to keep in mind. If you've owned the home jointly for over two years and you're splitting the equity, again with an asterisk, it's usually not a taxable event because you've gotten past that two-year magical mark. But again, consult your tax professional. But that can be more of an implication if you're dividing the property and you've owned it under two years.

Todd Orston:

Now, that's a great tip. Definitely not something that a lot of people think about when they're going through this process. And I'll second what you said, all right. Just like I will tell people, "If you need to talk to a divorce attorney, call a divorce attorney. If you are just looking to refinance, don't call your divorce attorney, call Ryan."

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, yeah.

Todd Orston:

And the same thing goes for taxes. We are all about the right tool for the right job.

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely.

Todd Orston:

And you are a million percent correct, that tax laws change all the time. And even in the context of divorce, so it's so important to make sure that as part of your "team", that you are surrounding yourself with people that actually know what they're talking about, thus, the reason I have you on the show so we can talk [inaudible 00:35:05] intelligently about mortgages and refinancing. All right, in the time we have left, let's talk about something that a lot of people don't think about until it's too late. All right. And it is something that can haunt you or help you right, depending. And that's preserving your credit. Talk to us.

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, yeah. So whenever you take out a joint mortgage, of course, that liability shows up on both of your credit reports. And since you're splitting ways, both spouses are splitting ways, we have to make sure we address that. And the simple way to remove someone from the liability of a mortgage is to refinance it out of their name and into the other spouse's name only. That is the only way it can be done. Maybe one in a million chance you call the current lender, you might be able to pull one of the spouses off without going through the refinance process. I haven't seen that in decades, but you can never say never. So 9.9 times out of 10, one spouse will have to refinance to get them off the credit. If they don't, and the other spouse, departing spouse, tries to go buy a home, it's going to be counted against them in terms of the qualification, or what we call our debt-to-income ratio, it's going to be baked into that amount. So the only way to pull it out is to refinance.

Another thing about preserving your credit that we want to think about is if you have one spouse that primarily pays the mortgage, in being bitter over the separation, we have seen some just stop paying. And so you want to be mindful, even if you're the departing spouse, and the other spouse that's keeping the house is saying, "Oh yeah, while we're going through this process and getting the final decree, I got you covered." Well, we've seen that, we've seen where people intentionally don't pay, and it absolutely ruins and trashes both parties' credit. And that really gets you backed into a corner, in a really, really bad spot. And you'll have no choice but to sell and go rent.

Todd Orston:

Yeah. And once your credit is dinged, it's dinged. I mean, once you take a hit to your credit, it's there and it takes years or potentially years to fix.

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely.

Todd Orston:

And so yeah, if you are the person who is giving up ownership of a house, we'll tell people all the time, don't just wipe your hands clean and say, "Well, it's not my responsibility anymore," because I have seen, again and again, people come to us in the form of a contempt, where they're alleging that the other party didn't do something they were obligated to do, namely they stopped making mortgage payments. And all of a sudden, they're calling us saying, "Oh my gosh, what do I do? I have a credit rating of 3, and the payments haven't been made." I'm joking about the 3. But they're basically like, "What do I do?" And I'm like, "Well, we can file a contempt if it violates the terms of the agreement. But in terms of your credit, it is what it is. I don't know what to tell you." And unfortunately, you need to monitor and make sure that what's supposed to be done is done.

Ryan Jacobs:

Absolutely, yeah. So if the payment is late, over 30 days, you'll get what we call a 1x30 on your credit report, which will lower your score. And if there's another one, that now it's 2x30, 3x30, whatever the case may be, that's really important. Now, what we have done, if in the agreement, it does say that the residing spouse is responsible for the payment, and the refinance hasn't taken place yet and they're late, we have gotten some exceptions, where, if we provide the right supporting document to say, "Hey, the residing spouse is solely responsible," that word's important, "and the departing spouse is not," even though it's still joint, we have gotten some of those through before. But it's got to be pretty steel-clad in the agreement of who is responsible for the payment. But real important to keep that mindful when going through the process.

Todd Orston:

Ryan, great tips. I really appreciate you being on the show. Why don't you tell the listeners how they can reach you?

Ryan Jacobs:

Yeah, absolutely. The best way to reach me is my cell phone, (678) 521-2129. Again, (678) 521-2129. Call or text anytime. And if you prefer email, no problem. That's rjacobs@homespiremortgage.com.

Todd Orston:

Ryan, thank you so much for being on the show. This was such great information. And like I said, it is so relevant, especially nowadays with so many people still looking to take money out, and refinance, and of course, people in the context of a divorce, handling it. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks everyone for listening, and we'll see you soon.